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Is Gerrard a talisman for Liverpool or could he be holding them back?

Graham Fisher in Editorial, English Premier League 26 Feb 2010

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Talisman?

Talisman?

I was reading a blog on the BBC the other day about whether or not there is such a thing as a one-man team.

The writer explained what he was talking about with the following paragraph,

“There are numerous examples of successful teams who have had this suggestion aimed at them, the Maradona inspired Argentina of 1986 and the modern-day Liverpool, inspired by Steven Gerrard.”

Whilst that was an interesting read and a worthwhile debate, it was actually one of the comments on the blog from a reader that caught my eye. He said,

“This is one of the biggest myths going, Liverpool actually perform better without Gerrard. Statistics show that over their last 150 Premier League games, Liverpool have won 55 per cent with Gerrard as a starter but of the games without him that figure is 61 per cent.”

I know Stevie G is pretty universally loved at Anfield but I wonder if other Liverpool fans think there is any truth in what this person said. Could it be that Liverpool are actually better without the man regarded by everyone else as their talisman?

Fear

Certainly at Arsenal when Thierry Henry left the club the fear that their main man had gone soon disappeared as other players seemed to come out from beneath the shadow that Henry had apparently created.

It is no secret that Gerrard has not been himself this season so far and although that could be mainly down to injury and the absence of Torres, there does appear to have been a significant drop in form.

Guilty

As an outsider I have been guilty, along with many others, of saying that Liverpool can only function with Gerrard and Torres in the team. I have long regarded Gerrard as being the catalyst for everything good that they do and believed that when he plays well, Liverpool do and when he doesn’t, the team doesn’t.

I am, of course, aware that I do not watch Liverpool play every week and fans who do so often have a different opinion to those who look on from afar. I wonder if this one person saying that Liverpool are not better with him in the team is a lone voice or whether other Liverpool supporters can see what he means.

Exist

Often, teams have not been a ‘one man team’ because such a thing doesn’t actually exist. What they do, however, is rely too much on one player. For example, the Arsenal of Thierry Henry usually looked to get the ball to him as quickly and as often as possible for obvious reasons. What that meant was that Henry was the star of the show but perhaps others in the team didn’t show all they could do because they were simply looking to give him the ball.

Maybe one could also cite the case of Wayne Rooney at Manchester United. Is it a coincidence that his best ever season is coming after the departure of Cristiano Ronaldo?

Huge

The twenty-nine year old England midfielder, who has seventy-seven international caps and has a huge part to play in England’s World Cup bid in the Summer, has been with Liverpool for twelve years. After making his debut at the age of eighteen and playing thirteen games that season, he hasn’t played less than thirty-one times in any of the eleven seasons since then.

During his time in the team Liverpool have won the Champions League, the UEFA Cup, the FA Cup twice and the Carling Cup twice. He has been the England player of the year, the PFA fans player of the year, the PFA player of the year and has been selected in the Premier League team of the year for each of the last six seasons.

Talent

He has produced the goods in the big games for his club and this is proved by his man of the match awards in the Champions League final of 2005 and the FA Cup final of 2006. There is absolutely no doubting his pedigree and talent.

Despite all of that I still wonder if the failure to win the Premier League title throughout those years is totally despite Gerrard’s best efforts, or whether the temptation to play the game entirely through him has sometimes had a negative effect on the team’s effectiveness.

I would welcome your views.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Graham Fisher


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  • Brad

    0 0

    But every fan of Liverpool’s rivals will hope they dont turn the fortunes. . .

  • blaze

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    benitez nshould go n we as barca should have got our hands on torres ages ago i mean besides his injuries the guy is a great striker and doesnt deserve to be over exerting himself @ anfield.bye bye benitez @least maybe liverpool will turn their fortunes.

  • Brad

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    Well, I’m a Man United fan, but I like and respect our biggest rival team and the only times I dont want them to do well is when they go against Man United. Prolly the best way for liverpool to get back to the way they used to be is. . . get rid of benitez.

  • Dylan

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    as a liverpool supporter, i’d really love to see roy hodgson take over for rafa. rafa’s reign has been good, but i do think it’s time for a less flamboyant manager. hodgson i think could add some discipline and organization to lfc. opinions?

  • Brad

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    so it is benitez? Only a liverpool fan can really answer that, and I guess you are, kenzar.

  • Kenzar

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    Gerrard is the main man,no doubt about that,us losing against wigan is down to benitez and his woeful tactics.

  • Brad

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    Benitez? Couldn’t he be pulling them down? if he is, then it’s on accident, of course, but he still could be pulling them down to davy jones’ locker.

  • blaze

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    i fear we myt jus be heading in th@ direction @ barca if sum peeps dont get down to business,liverpool,as they would want to be called,are a team brimming with potential m still wondering whos pulling the ship down and it cant be gerrard.

  • blaze

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    they are a silly lot loserpool

  • Brad

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    I’m beginning to agree: losing to Wigan Athletic yesterday. . . and on their home ground! With Gerrard AND Torres AND Kuyt on the pitch simultaneously! Talk about fighting a hurricane with a bb gun. . .

  • blaze

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    me too brad.wh@ happened to loserpool over the weekend…..they lost-looserpool for real i mean they prove it every chance they get.

  • Brad

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    mostly? well . . . dang cant think of anything that could have led to his fall from grace otherwise.

  • Ali Ezzedine

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    Owen’s injury problems in the 1st place is what cintributed to his fall from grace (mostly)

  • blaze

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    yeah it would be nice if he could finish a season without his injuries but i cant help butb think of wh@ befell a certain michael owen,in the end injuries will remove torres from such debates as he will be a has been.definitely Gerrard is key.
    the top three will change and that is definite,watch the games and you wont have doubt,lets wait it out as they slug it out.

  • gooner-11

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    thats why i only kind of agreed with you…”injury succeptability pulls him down”

  • Brad

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    I never said it would be nice for torres to be fit for a season. . . but since you said it, it would be nice.

  • gooner-11

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    i kind of agree about arsenal needing a world class striker, you speak of van Persie.
    but he is injured so i guess the issue is lack of depth for Arsenal.
    I couldn’t disagree more with Arsenal resembling Liverpool, take a look how many goals they have scored and how spread out they are ESP when RVP was still playing and they were enroute to scoring the most premier league goals ever. by the way, Arshavin is not a striker and he has been out for a month with a groin injury and hadnt scored much prior to that. he was only covering as striker cause their 4 strikers (rvp, bendtner, eduardo, vela) were all injured for a time. bendtner has started 2 matches since back from injury and has a goal and an assist. yes, he cold have had 4 goals yesterday vs Burnley but what do you expect straight back from being out for 2 months?

  • Ali Ezzedine

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    I do not mean that only 2 of their players have experience,I mean that Liverpool has the most experience of being in the big 4 than the others fighting for a place in the UEFA Champion’s League.

    Also, Liverpool in lot of cases resmble Arsenal. In my opinion Arsenal is one of the tp teams in Europe, I understand that Wenger is thinking about the future by signing of Young players. Arsenal really do bring the meaning of stylish play to a new level, they pass and pass and pass but the goal? They need a worldclass, pure striker to cover for Arshavin when he is injured. Bentdner is not bringing what he is supposed to Bring, the team will construct a nice attack but will lack finishing options, they will eventually need Fabregas to step upfront and score the goals himself. And.. can you imagine Arsenal without Fabregas and Arshavin at the moment? Thats what I think about them that resembles Liverpool. Man Utd is on the way of being a 1 man team, their dependancy on Rooney was tested last night and they just scraped off a win – guess what – they lacked that pure finishing ability that Rooney has and Berbatov often loose. I could give examples all day, the real fact is that every team, big team,some way or another have a talisman – including Liverpool

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    i love a good debate, friends!

    where did dylan go? nothing to say buddy?
    why cant blaze (or anyone) answer any of my questions?
    and sorry blaze, but i am calm and un-cranked, i guess maybe a little frustrated that no one has much to say but insults, aside from ali and brad…

    i see nothing to convince me or any reasons that lead to the belief that liverpool is a two man team.
    yes, ali experience- agree, but do you mean only 2 of their players have experience?
    i kind of agree with brad, in that it would be nice to see torres fit for a season.
    their TEAM quality is the only reason they are still near 4th… but too early to predict the outcome of 4th spot if you ask me.

    peace

  • Ali Ezzedine

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    yeah it was really funny, but theyre just mildly fighting back, I really think that the top 4 wont change this season despite the efforts of Man City, Villa, & Spurs. Liverpool unfortunately just have too much experience…

  • Brad

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    yeah, blaze, Torres is key, but the injury succeptability pulls him down.
    so your question is answered like this:
    it is Gerrard n Torres.

    Ali, your right, the first player i think about when i think about liverpool (btw, blaze, that was funny: “Loserpool oh sorry Liverpool”- its harsh but it has been way too truthful for them this season) is Gerrard.

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    blaze, nobody is saying that Torres isnt a key player ! He sure is, we all at some point said that he is of much importance as Gerrard, making notice of their partnership. But, you do have to admit that he is a bit prone to injury, which will give the edge to Gerrard of who is being the current Liverpool talisman. Also, when anyone at this day and age thinks about Liverpool they immidietly imagine Gerrard with his red shirt. I know I do !

  • blaze

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    i was bjust waiting for the opportune time to attack you Brad so dont think you’re safe…..jus pulling your leg.Torres is for sure injury prone but he still is like a key player there of which unfortunately it looks as though Loserpool oh sorry Liverpool dont have many of those playing for them,they got Torres n Gerrard or is it Gerrard n Torres?

  • Brad

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    ok. . . I thought you were gonna attack me, blaze, for my previous comment.

    back to the discussion: Gerrard is Liverpool’s only hope, period. Torres seems to be a bit tooooo injury prone to be anything more than Gerrard’s backup.

  • blaze

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    gooner i respect your opinion,tiz nice to get people cranked up n ready for a debate @ least you know your soccer

  • Ali Ezzedine

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    What I really think that Gerrard is falling victim to his teams lapses and his coach’s ego. No one can argue that he is one of the top players in PL and one of the most respected ones world-wide, in the end, no man can hold up the entire team. As you saw earlier that when Rooney has an off day, Man Utd tend to come off short. 3 days ago, Saha was not in Moyse’s formation against Spurs and you saw what happened there. The list goes on and on. Gerrard is really one of the columns holding Liverpool – Its like a complitation, Gerrard needs Torres and Torres needs Gerrard – However, Liverpool only needs Gerrard PERIOD.

  • Brad

    0 0

    We’ll respect that. Well, I will, dont know about blaze.

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    haha, watched most Liverpool matches this season actually.
    are you curious which channels?

    as a primarily RVP/KNVB fan, i like Liverpool and i love Liverpool to beat MUFC and CFC and i love them to do well against everyone but Arsenal, because, forgive me, i enjoy free flowing football. but i dont really care as much for clubs, so maybe my gooner name is misleading at this point. maybe ill change it to something holland-y.
    isnt it crazy that people would have a different opinion? or an opinion at all? should i explain?

    are you saying that gerrard is having as good of a season this year, and getting better?
    are you saying Liverpool a two man team?
    are you saying that you dont think that with Liverpool’s payroll compared to the rest of england’s top payrolls that they were not overachieving at all last year?
    are you saying you would rather disagree with someone’s opinion than give your own?

    ill run my mouth off where ever I please, esp when i actually know why i think what i think.

  • blaze

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    gooner,gooner,gooner,where do you watch your soccer?or you just read about soccer in the papers or blogs on the internet?watch n see then run your mouth

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    he says daft cause he wants us to think he’s British.
    he he, just kidding, not intending to be offensive…

  • Brad

    0 0

    Daft? haha, why would someone say a weird word like that? Then again, this is a weird world. . .
    Gerrard is pretty much Liverpool’s messiah at times. when it aint him, it’s torres. Liverpool is a 2 man team, unlike everyone else.

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    just told you i disagreed.
    obviously i am not a fan.

    are you daft?

  • Dylan

    0 0

    are you daft? gerrard is everything to liverpool

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    i think gerrard is just a shadow of what he was last year and i also believe blaze and ali may have based their ideas on last years output. i do not think you will see last years gerrard again. i think he is on a decline. yes, he is still dangerous, and a quality player, but not to the extent of his old form.
    i feel like every match i see him play in he dives at least once, his diving is absolutely disgraceful.
    also, i personally do not see liverpool as a two man team. though i would agree that when he and Torres are in form liverpool is way better, they are still a decent side without. i also dont think liverpool is just hanging on by a thread by any means. they are placed exactly where they should be, fighting for a 4th spot.
    i dont understand how anyone would have expected their overacheiving of last year again for this year.

  • blaze

    0 0

    4 sho gerrard is the engine of liverpool and torres is the drive shaft

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    1- Liverpool is defenitely a 2 man team. Torres in the recent years has been just as important as Gerrard, providing excellent finishing abilities preceeded by top notch play-making abilities by Gerrard.

    2- Almost every big club has an obvious talisman. Man Utd has Rooney, Liverpool has Gerrard &or Torres, Arsenal has Fabregas, Chelsea has Drogba, & Everton has Saha. It is the dependency on that talisman that defines the succes of each team.

    3- Gerrard’s departure cannot be compared to CR7’s departure that made Rooney blossom. Gerrard leaving would only mean that one of the columns barely holding up this team will be gone. There is no obvious inheritent of Gerrard’s influence on the team like in the case of Man Utd or Arsenal,.

    4- The statistics that show Liverpool preforming better without Gerrard are relative. The matches that Liverpool won without him maybe were against bad teams; I mean would you play your best players in a second degree match. I can tell you for sure that Liverpool has almost not managed to win an Ivy League match without the contribution of Gerrard.

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    1- Liverpool is defenitely a 2 man team. Torres in the recent years has been just as important as Gerrard, providing excellent finishing abilities preceeded by top notch play-making abilities by Gerrard.

    2- Almost every big club has an obvious talisman. Man Utd has Rooney, Liverpool has Gerrard &or Torres, Arsenal has Fabregas, Chelsea has Drogba, & Everton has Saha. It is the dependency on that talisman that defines the succes of each team.

    3- Gerrard’s departure cannot be compared to CR7’s departure that made Rooney blossom. Gerrard leaving would only mean that one of the columns barely holding up this team will be gone. There is no obvious inheritent of Gerrard’s influence on the team like in the case of Man Utd or Arsenal,.

    4- The statistics that show Liverpool preforming better without Gerrard are relative. The matches that Liverpool won without him maybe were against bad teams; I mean would you play your best players in a second degree match. I can tell you for sure that Liverpool has almost not managed to win an Ivy League match without the contribution of Gerrard.

  • blaze

    0 0

    4 sho gerrard is the engine of liverpool and torres is the drive shaft

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    i think gerrard is just a shadow of what he was last year and i also believe blaze and ali may have based their ideas on last years output. i do not think you will see last years gerrard again. i think he is on a decline. yes, he is still dangerous, and a quality player, but not to the extent of his old form.
    i feel like every match i see him play in he dives at least once, his diving is absolutely disgraceful.
    also, i personally do not see liverpool as a two man team. though i would agree that when he and Torres are in form liverpool is way better, they are still a decent side without. i also dont think liverpool is just hanging on by a thread by any means. they are placed exactly where they should be, fighting for a 4th spot.
    i dont understand how anyone would have expected their overacheiving of last year again for this year.

  • Dylan

    0 0

    are you daft? gerrard is everything to liverpool

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    just told you i disagreed.
    obviously i am not a fan.

    are you daft?

  • Brad

    0 0

    Daft? haha, why would someone say a weird word like that? Then again, this is a weird world. . .
    Gerrard is pretty much Liverpool’s messiah at times. when it aint him, it’s torres. Liverpool is a 2 man team, unlike everyone else.

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    he says daft cause he wants us to think he’s British.
    he he, just kidding, not intending to be offensive…

  • blaze

    0 0

    gooner,gooner,gooner,where do you watch your soccer?or you just read about soccer in the papers or blogs on the internet?watch n see then run your mouth

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    haha, watched most Liverpool matches this season actually.
    are you curious which channels?

    as a primarily RVP/KNVB fan, i like Liverpool and i love Liverpool to beat MUFC and CFC and i love them to do well against everyone but Arsenal, because, forgive me, i enjoy free flowing football. but i dont really care as much for clubs, so maybe my gooner name is misleading at this point. maybe ill change it to something holland-y.
    isnt it crazy that people would have a different opinion? or an opinion at all? should i explain?

    are you saying that gerrard is having as good of a season this year, and getting better?
    are you saying Liverpool a two man team?
    are you saying that you dont think that with Liverpool’s payroll compared to the rest of england’s top payrolls that they were not overachieving at all last year?
    are you saying you would rather disagree with someone’s opinion than give your own?

    ill run my mouth off where ever I please, esp when i actually know why i think what i think.

  • Brad

    0 0

    We’ll respect that. Well, I will, dont know about blaze.

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    What I really think that Gerrard is falling victim to his teams lapses and his coach’s ego. No one can argue that he is one of the top players in PL and one of the most respected ones world-wide, in the end, no man can hold up the entire team. As you saw earlier that when Rooney has an off day, Man Utd tend to come off short. 3 days ago, Saha was not in Moyse’s formation against Spurs and you saw what happened there. The list goes on and on. Gerrard is really one of the columns holding Liverpool – Its like a complitation, Gerrard needs Torres and Torres needs Gerrard – However, Liverpool only needs Gerrard PERIOD.

  • blaze

    0 0

    gooner i respect your opinion,tiz nice to get people cranked up n ready for a debate @ least you know your soccer

  • Brad

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    ok. . . I thought you were gonna attack me, blaze, for my previous comment.

    back to the discussion: Gerrard is Liverpool’s only hope, period. Torres seems to be a bit tooooo injury prone to be anything more than Gerrard’s backup.

  • blaze

    0 0

    i was bjust waiting for the opportune time to attack you Brad so dont think you’re safe…..jus pulling your leg.Torres is for sure injury prone but he still is like a key player there of which unfortunately it looks as though Loserpool oh sorry Liverpool dont have many of those playing for them,they got Torres n Gerrard or is it Gerrard n Torres?

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    blaze, nobody is saying that Torres isnt a key player ! He sure is, we all at some point said that he is of much importance as Gerrard, making notice of their partnership. But, you do have to admit that he is a bit prone to injury, which will give the edge to Gerrard of who is being the current Liverpool talisman. Also, when anyone at this day and age thinks about Liverpool they immidietly imagine Gerrard with his red shirt. I know I do !

  • Brad

    0 0

    yeah, blaze, Torres is key, but the injury succeptability pulls him down.
    so your question is answered like this:
    it is Gerrard n Torres.

    Ali, your right, the first player i think about when i think about liverpool (btw, blaze, that was funny: “Loserpool oh sorry Liverpool”- its harsh but it has been way too truthful for them this season) is Gerrard.

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    yeah it was really funny, but theyre just mildly fighting back, I really think that the top 4 wont change this season despite the efforts of Man City, Villa, & Spurs. Liverpool unfortunately just have too much experience…

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    i love a good debate, friends!

    where did dylan go? nothing to say buddy?
    why cant blaze (or anyone) answer any of my questions?
    and sorry blaze, but i am calm and un-cranked, i guess maybe a little frustrated that no one has much to say but insults, aside from ali and brad…

    i see nothing to convince me or any reasons that lead to the belief that liverpool is a two man team.
    yes, ali experience- agree, but do you mean only 2 of their players have experience?
    i kind of agree with brad, in that it would be nice to see torres fit for a season.
    their TEAM quality is the only reason they are still near 4th… but too early to predict the outcome of 4th spot if you ask me.

    peace

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    I do not mean that only 2 of their players have experience,I mean that Liverpool has the most experience of being in the big 4 than the others fighting for a place in the UEFA Champion’s League.

    Also, Liverpool in lot of cases resmble Arsenal. In my opinion Arsenal is one of the tp teams in Europe, I understand that Wenger is thinking about the future by signing of Young players. Arsenal really do bring the meaning of stylish play to a new level, they pass and pass and pass but the goal? They need a worldclass, pure striker to cover for Arshavin when he is injured. Bentdner is not bringing what he is supposed to Bring, the team will construct a nice attack but will lack finishing options, they will eventually need Fabregas to step upfront and score the goals himself. And.. can you imagine Arsenal without Fabregas and Arshavin at the moment? Thats what I think about them that resembles Liverpool. Man Utd is on the way of being a 1 man team, their dependancy on Rooney was tested last night and they just scraped off a win – guess what – they lacked that pure finishing ability that Rooney has and Berbatov often loose. I could give examples all day, the real fact is that every team, big team,some way or another have a talisman – including Liverpool

  • gooner-11

    0 0

    i kind of agree about arsenal needing a world class striker, you speak of van Persie.
    but he is injured so i guess the issue is lack of depth for Arsenal.
    I couldn’t disagree more with Arsenal resembling Liverpool, take a look how many goals they have scored and how spread out they are ESP when RVP was still playing and they were enroute to scoring the most premier league goals ever. by the way, Arshavin is not a striker and he has been out for a month with a groin injury and hadnt scored much prior to that. he was only covering as striker cause their 4 strikers (rvp, bendtner, eduardo, vela) were all injured for a time. bendtner has started 2 matches since back from injury and has a goal and an assist. yes, he cold have had 4 goals yesterday vs Burnley but what do you expect straight back from being out for 2 months?

  • Brad

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    I never said it would be nice for torres to be fit for a season. . . but since you said it, it would be nice.

  • gooner-11

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    thats why i only kind of agreed with you…”injury succeptability pulls him down”

  • blaze

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    yeah it would be nice if he could finish a season without his injuries but i cant help butb think of wh@ befell a certain michael owen,in the end injuries will remove torres from such debates as he will be a has been.definitely Gerrard is key.
    the top three will change and that is definite,watch the games and you wont have doubt,lets wait it out as they slug it out.

  • Ali Ezzedine

    0 0

    Owen’s injury problems in the 1st place is what cintributed to his fall from grace (mostly)

  • Brad

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    mostly? well . . . dang cant think of anything that could have led to his fall from grace otherwise.

  • blaze

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    me too brad.wh@ happened to loserpool over the weekend…..they lost-looserpool for real i mean they prove it every chance they get.

  • Brad

    0 0

    I’m beginning to agree: losing to Wigan Athletic yesterday. . . and on their home ground! With Gerrard AND Torres AND Kuyt on the pitch simultaneously! Talk about fighting a hurricane with a bb gun. . .

  • blaze

    0 0

    they are a silly lot loserpool

  • blaze

    0 0

    i fear we myt jus be heading in th@ direction @ barca if sum peeps dont get down to business,liverpool,as they would want to be called,are a team brimming with potential m still wondering whos pulling the ship down and it cant be gerrard.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Benitez? Couldn’t he be pulling them down? if he is, then it’s on accident, of course, but he still could be pulling them down to davy jones’ locker.

  • Kenzar

    0 0

    Gerrard is the main man,no doubt about that,us losing against wigan is down to benitez and his woeful tactics.

  • Brad

    0 0

    so it is benitez? Only a liverpool fan can really answer that, and I guess you are, kenzar.

  • Dylan

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    as a liverpool supporter, i’d really love to see roy hodgson take over for rafa. rafa’s reign has been good, but i do think it’s time for a less flamboyant manager. hodgson i think could add some discipline and organization to lfc. opinions?

  • Brad

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    Well, I’m a Man United fan, but I like and respect our biggest rival team and the only times I dont want them to do well is when they go against Man United. Prolly the best way for liverpool to get back to the way they used to be is. . . get rid of benitez.

  • blaze

    0 0

    benitez nshould go n we as barca should have got our hands on torres ages ago i mean besides his injuries the guy is a great striker and doesnt deserve to be over exerting himself @ anfield.bye bye benitez @least maybe liverpool will turn their fortunes.

  • Brad

    0 0

    But every fan of Liverpool’s rivals will hope they dont turn the fortunes. . .

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